Group Group
Page Page
Instagram Instagram
Twitter Twitter
News updates are also provided via the EEF News WhatsApp group.
To be added to the group, text your name to 07710 447868.

Wednesday, November 10

Scroll down for the latest articles
'Everything Today' is emailed to subscribers and available via Everything Epping Forest's social media feeds. 
To receive 'Everything Today' by email, register your email address 

For more information about Everything Epping Forest and details about advertising CLICK HERE
Click on the links for the local news pages



November 2021 October 2021 September 2021 August 2021 July 2021 June 2021 May 2021 April 2021 March 2021 February 2021 January 2021 

Rolling news pages

Fatal collision, Buckhurst Way, Buckhurst Hill (October 2021)
Palmers Grove, Nazeing - murder investigation (September 2021)
Grosvenor Drive, Loughton - murder investigation (August 2021)
VOTE 2021 (May 6)
Farm Hill Road hit-and-run, Waltham Abbey (April 2021)
Richard Okorogheye (March-April 2021)
Three Colts pub arson, Buckhurst Hill (February 2021)
Wake Arms roundabout - murder investigation (June 2020)
Audio news reports
(September 25, 2021) - Essex cricketer Ryan ten Doeschate, who lives in Epping, talks about his career and plans for the future after his decision to retire at the end of the 2021 season CLICK HERE

(September 11, 2021) - Epping Forest District Council chairman Helen Kane opens the new Buckhurst Hill Football Club stand on the day the club played the biggest match in its history CLICK HERE

(August 25, 2021) - A blue plaque is unveiled at one of the former Epping homes of 'Brambly Hedge' creator Jill Barklem CLICK HERE

The 'News Talk' audio bulletins provide a round-up of news for the Epping Forest district.

To listen to the latest bulletin 


The latest bulletin reports on the planting of a tree in memory of Debden Park High School student Harley Watson who died almost two years ago, and looks ahead to the return of the Waltham Abbey Cavalcade of Light.
To email Everything Epping Forest CLICK HERE
Clubs and Organisations CLICK HERE
What's On Listings CLICK HERE

For full details about Festival of Light events 
For more about The King Harold Day Society CLICK HERE
For more about Waltham Abbey Town Partnership CLICK HERE

(November 7, 2021) - Festival of Light events
(November 1, 2021) - Cavalcade of Light preview
North Weald Bassett Parish Council

Vacancy for a caretaker/cleaner for
The Parish Hall, Thornwood Common.
Eight to ten hours a week (£10 per hour). To commence in January 2022.
Contact the clerk for a job description.
Tel: 07572 507591
For more details CLICK HERE
For fee information and booking form CLICK HERE
7.20pm - Tuesday, November 9

MORETON: Inaugural parish farmers' market

A first Parish Farmers' Market will be held in Moreton on Sunday (November 14).

The market, organised by the local 'Community Spirit' group, will be in the White Hart pub car park (9.30am until 12.30pm, with set-up from 8.15am).

A minute's silence and reading by pupils at Moreton Primary School will take place at 11am to mark Remembrance Sunday.

More than a dozen stalls have confirmed that they will be attending, selling gifts, cheese, gins, wines and spirits, fish, candles, cakes, dog treats, pottery and eco-friendly items.

Space is still available for stallholders who pay £15 for a stall.

Across 12 months, 80 per cent of the stall fees will go to Moreton Primary School and 20 per cent to 'Community Spirit'.

For more details, email Rhys Martin by emailing

Volunteers are wanted to help on the day.
5.11pm - Tuesday, November 9

WALTHAM ABBEY: Fundraiser receives recognition from Prime Minister

The fundraising efforts of a Waltham Abbey man who has raised over £160,000 over the past ten years to support victims of crime or abuse and those affected by ill-health or disability has been recognised by the Prime Minister with a Points of Light award.

Shane Yerrell, who is a Waltham Abbey town councillor, receives the award in recognition of his dedicated fundraising in support of anyone facing hardship.

Shane, who runs the 'Through the Fight Foundation', started fundraising after being the victim of a knife attack in 2007, and realising he could turn his experience into a positive by supporting others who were going through their own traumatic or difficult situation. 

Following the success of a sponsored climb in aid of ‘The Rob Knox Foundation’, set up in memory of the actor killed in a knife attack to support young people gain opportunities in the arts, Shane was inspired to continue his fundraising efforts, leading to the creation of his own foundation,‘Through The Fight’ in 2016.

'Through the Fight' is dedicated to supporting anyone facing hardship. 

Shane's most recent fundraiser is in support of a terminally ill 48-year-old man, raising over £3,000 to help him fulfill his bucket list wish of attending a Tottenham Hotspur match in a VIP box with all his family.

Shane said: "This is so overwhelming. I’ve had an incredible journey over the last ten years and met some amazing people.

"I set up ‘Through The Fight Foundation’ to ensure victims of violent crime and people affected by illnesses could have somewhere to turn. Someone who would reach out to them. I wanted to be the person who reached out.

"To receive recognition from our Prime Minister is incredible. The fact that he has taken time out of his busy schedule to acknowledge my fundraising is amazing.

"I would like to dedicate this award to my family, close friends and all the people who have have fought back from their struggles.

"Without them I wouldn’t be where I am today."
4.38pm - Tuesday, November 9
WALTHAM ABBEY: Two teenagers convicted over death

A teenager has been convicted of murdering a man in Waltham Abbey earlier this year.

A second teenager has also been convicted of manslaughter in connection with the death of local man Neil Darnell, 50, who was found seriously injured at about 10am on Friday, April 16, after being hit by a car on Farm Hill Road.

The driver of the vehicle failed to stop at the scene and the car was found abandoned a short while later.

CCTV footage recovered showed that two teenagers had attended Le Golden Touch barbers on Market Square, Waltham Abbey, that morning.

An unknown man had approached the barbers to threaten the two teenagers, before slashing the tyres of their car. 

He then fled the area on a bicycle.

Despite the car having been damaged and in a dangerous condition to drive, the two teenagers then got behind the wheel of their grey BMW to pursue the man at speed.

Mr Darnell, an innocent pedestrian crossing the junction at Farm Hill Road, was struck by their car.

He died in hospital two days later.

A forensic post-mortem examination found he had suffered a traumatic head injury.

On Saturday, May 8, a 17-year old boy, from Cheshunt, was arrested in Harlow and charged with murder.

Within a week, a second 17-year-old boy, from Hertford, was also arrested and charged with murder.

Both teenagers stood trial at Chelmsford Crown Court and yesterday (Monday) a jury found both guilty in connection with Mr Darnell’s death.

The Cheshunt boy, the driver of the car, was found guilty of murder.

The Hertford boy, the passenger, was found guilty of manslaughter.

Both will be sentenced in December on a date yet to be fixed.

Senior investigating officer Detective Chief Inspector Greg Wood said: “What initially appeared to be a case of dangerous driving turned out to be much more disturbing.

“Evidence clearly showed that both the driver and passenger got behind the wheel of their car intending to cause harm to someone.

“During their pursuit the driver drove directly at oncoming vehicles and mounted the pavement several times to deliberately try and collide with the cyclist.

“Even after they hit a completely innocent bystander, who subsequently lost his life, they continued to follow the cyclist with no regard for anyone else around them.

“At no point did they attempt to get help for the man they had fatally injured. Their only focus was to cover their involvement.

“As with any investigation where someone’s life has been cut short by the actions of others, I know this result cannot bring back the loving husband and father Neil’s family have lost.

“I hope they can take some solace knowing that our teams have worked tirelessly throughout the investigation and that those involved have been convicted of their crimes.”
4.15am - Tuesday, November 9

EPPING: Town council holding best residential Christmas lights display competition

Epping Town Council is running a best residential Christmas lights display competition this year.

The competition is open to all homes in the Parish of Epping, including Coopersale and Fiddlers Hamlet.

The competition is being sponsored by Luxe Watches, of 219 High Street, Epping, which is providing a £200 first prize and £100 second prize.

Sales manager Oscar Strong said: "We are thrilled to be involved in such a fun community initiative. We can’t wait to see the entries.” 

Entry forms - which can be downloaded at and are also available by emailing or calling into the town council offices at Epping Hall - must be returned, with up to two photographs of the display, by 4pm on Friday, December 10.

The initiative aims to help to spread festive community spirit across the Parish and is an opportunity for residents to show off their festive lights and decorative displays, some of which are used for charity fundraising purposes.  

The judges will make a shortlist of potential winners and visit the homes from Monday, December 13, subject to the weather, with the winner and second place entries announced on Friday, December 17.  

For further information, contact Epping Town Council by emailing or ringing 01992 579444.

(news articles continue below)
SATURDAY, DECEMBER 11 - The Roding Players Orchestra 30th Anniversary Gala Concert, St Mary's Church, 201 High Road, Loughton, IG10 1BB (7.30pm). Tickets available on the door priced £8 (£7 concessions, free for under-11s). Card payment preferred. Refreshments included.
The orchestra is always looking for new players, especially brass.

For more details
SATURDAY, DECEMBER 4 - Felicitas Chamber Choir presents 'Rejoice and Sing! A Christmas Celebration', the Abbey Church, Highbridge Street, Waltham Abbey (7.30pm). Music director: Simon Winters; harpist Rachel Bartels. Tickets £15 (£12 if purchased in advance - free for children and full-time students under 25).

For more details
1.20pm - Tuesday, November 9

NAZEING: Defibrillator now kept in redundant telephone box

A redundant telephone box in Nazeing has been brought back to life as the home for a defibrillator, thanks to local fundraising efforts.

Lorraine Page, one of Epping Forest District Council's community champions for Nazeing, has been working on the project, with the support of other villages, for three years.

The project involved the purchase of the red telephone box, in Betts Lane, by Nazeing Action Group, for £1, with Lorraine offering "huge thanks" to councillor Richard Bassett.

She added: "By July 2019 we had raised over £1,000 in donations, received from our very kind and generous neighbours during our regular neighbourhood summer party.

"Raffle prizes for our party had been supplied by local businesses as they were all keen to help with the new defibrillator too.

"We had our neighbour's Christmas party in December 2019 at The King Harold's Head, raising even more funds. 

"Finally in January last year we had reached our goal, which was now £2,100 due to the time lapse in placing our order with The Community Heartbeat Trust charity."

But that was not the end of the project as the fundraisers still had to raise money for an electrical supply in the telephone box.

Lorraine said: "The King Harold's Head, where the owners Jack and Costas had always catered for our Christmas parties with great care and support, didn't hesitate!

"Their very generous donation made it possible for us to proceed without any further delay."

The final chapter in the long-running effort to get a defibrillator installed came when Harlow-based electrical contractor Sigma Networks Ltd fitted the defibrillator free of charge.
12.47pm - Tuesday, November 9

DEBDEN: Man assaulted and robbed in The Broadway

Police are investigating after a man was assaulted and robbed of his rucksack in Debden by three people who drove off in a vehicle which later failed to stop for officers.

Officers were told that three people had approached a man in The Broadway, at about 12.25pm yesterday (Monday) and assaulted him.

A spokesman added: "The victim had his rucksack stolen by the group who then left in a vehicle.

"Officers located the vehicle at about 3.40pm and it failed to stop for our officers.

"The occupants later decamped in Powell Drive (on the Sewardstone / Chingford border) and while officers searched the area, they could not find the people who were inside."

Anyone with any information can submit a report online at or use the 'Live Chat' button to speak to an online operator between 7am and 11pm (quote incident 451 of November 8).

Information can also be given to police on 101 or to Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555 111.

EEF NEWS LIVE features breaking news and 'as-it-happens' updates

Everything Local News media service
The Everything Local News media service prepares and circulates news releases to the local and regional media and each client's email subscribers. Updates are also featured on the Everything Local News Facebook and Twitter feeds.
For more details ring 07710 447868.

Latest releases:

Best residential Christmas lights display
COUNCILLOR JAYMEY McIVOR: Praise for pub's Remembrance display
BUCKHURST HILL FC: Chairman hails table-toppers ahead of history-making cup tie
DAME ELEANOR LAING MP: MP switches on Chigwell Diwali lights
EPPING TOWN COUNCIL: Playground fundraisers launch Crowdfunding appeal
COUNCILLOR JAYMEY McIVOR: Councillor launches Remembrance hashtag
BUCKHURST HIIL FC: Club prepares for first ever home cup tie under lights
EPPING TOWN COUNCIL: Council opposes Lindsey Street homes
EPPING TOWN COUNCIL: Council launches festive window competition
BUCKHURST HILL FC: Girls team up with Leyton Orient
ONGAR TOWN FORUM: Santa's sleigh at market
WALTHAM ABBEY TOWN COUNCIL: Cavalcade of Light returns
DAME ELEANOR LAING MP: Epping Halloween shop window competition
ONGAR TOWN FORUM: November market preview
BUCKHURST HILL FC: BHFC 3 v Haverhill Borough 2
EPPING TOWN COUNCIL: Playground fundraisers receive boost

To receive Everything Local News media releases, register your email address by clicking on the boxes below
Buckhurst Hill Parish Council CLICK HERE
Epping Town Council CLICK HERE
North Weald Bassett Parish Council CLICK HERE
Ongar Town Council CLICK HERE
Waltham Abbey Town Council CLICK HERE
Debden Park High School, Loughton CLICK HERE
Hereward Primary School, Loughton CLICK HERE
Roding Valley High School, Loughton CLICK HERE
Thomas Willingale School and Nursery, Loughton CLICK HERE
West Hatch High School, Chigwell CLICK HERE
Epping Forest MP Dame Eleanor Laing CLICK HERE
County and district councillor Jaymey McIvor CLICK HERE
Ongar Town Forum CLICK HERE
Buckhurst Hill Football Club CLICK HERE
Everything Epping Forest news pages, picture slideshows and audio (including 'News Talk' bulletins), Everything Today news round-ups, the Everything Waltham Abbey page and Everything Local News media releases have been accessed more than 491,239 times in 2021.
Everything Epping Forest, which has 41,578 social media and email connections, was launched by local journalist David Jackman in November 2008. 
Everything Epping Forest's success as a hyperlocal news source has been featured on Sky News, the BBC Radio 4 'You and Yours' programme and BBC Essex as well as in several media publications.
David was nominated for Epping Forest District Council's Citizen of the Year award in 2020 and 2021.

Everything Waltham Abbey, part of the Everything Epping Forest local news and information service, features news and information for Waltham Abbey and the surrounding area.
If you have news or information about a business, school or organisation which could be featured, email   

To read Everything Waltham Abbey

Support your local high street. Order your essentials and treats from local independent shops with same-day delivery.

For more details
'The Summer Queen'

Susan Burton, who lives near Hainault Forest, has a passionate interest in ancient history, archaeology, mythology and above all story-telling. After spending more than 20 years writing copy for other people she has decided to write for herself, drawing on her knowledge, imagination and love of a tall tale.

​Susan Burton speaks about the book.
To watch the video

For more details CLICK HERE

Also available from Amazon, Waterstones and Barnes and Noble.
Demand Responsive Transport (DaRT) - an alternative way of providing access to key services in rural areas. DaRT customers book journeys with Epping Forest Community Transport in advance and are picked up from an agreed point, bus stop or local place of interest.
Passengers can use it to go shopping, attend a health appointment, visit friends, get to work, school or college.
The DaRT87 service operates by your bookings. Between Monday and Saturday 6.30am to 6.30pm. The service operates between Harlow and Epping. You become a member. Ring 01992 579556. Book your journey and return time at the same time. Pay contactless on bus.
Epping author Andy Scott has published two books:

'Tales of a Page' is about his late father’s time working as a Page (Bellboy) at The Dorchester Hotel, London, in the early 1950s and features exclusive images, some never before seen, provided by the hotel. £5 (plus £1.53 postage and packing). CLICK HERE
'London’s Loveable Villain' is the 236-page true-life story of Andy Scott's great uncle, Chick 'Cocky' Knight, Hammersmith-born wrestler and the only British sports person who was a triple lifesaver!
£12 (plus £3.78 postage and packing).
For more details
For more details CLICK HERE
Pixel Business Centre, Waltham Abbey

Serviced office space suitable for 2-20 people. On-site café, meeting rooms, manned reception, fully furnished and high-speed wi-fi are just some of the benefits available to our tenants.
For more details, email or ring 01992 667700.

Website  Facebook
Ricky Paul Flowers Ltd,
Unit 3, 158 Queens Road,
Buckhurst Hill

Ricky Paul Flowers is a creative floral company established in 2010 offering fresh and faux flowers, balloons and creative floral installations for weddings, events and house parties and flower bouquets with a free local delivery service and weekly flowers for the home.

Website  Instagram  Facebook
Oakland Care

Oakland Care’s range of care homes include Lambwood Heights in Chigwell, Woodland Grove in Loughton and Elsyng House in Enfield. All our homes offer five-star facilities and state-of-the-art features for a fulfilling and purposeful stay within our homes.
To book a tour, ring 0300 303 5445.
Hammond and Smith

Epping’s newest estate agent offering a modern, fresh approach. We value our local community, providing a service with integrity and authenticity.
Tel: 01992 919007

Website  Facebook  Instagram  Twitter
Stagecoach Performing Arts Loughton

At Stagecoach Performing Arts Loughton we love to bring out the best in every child through the wonderful world of Singing, Dancing and Acting. 
We work on developing Creative Courage For Life so our students can shine on whichever stage they choose to in life. 
We are proud to offer high quality live Zoom classes when our sessions cannot run in person.

Website  Instagram  Facebook
Campling Foods

Campling Foods 'Meals on Wheels' service delivers hot, freshly prepared meals daily to the elderly and vulnerable in our community. Developed by our talented team, we offer a choice of comforting and familiar meals that are not only nutritious but delicious too! We also include a tasty homemade desert with every order, all for a total price of £6.99 per day, delivered.
For more details ring or message 07507 763078. 

Website  Facebook
Howe and Co
mobile fish and chips

Monday: Abridge 5pm-8pm
Tuesday: Toot Hill 4.30pm-5.15pm; Shelley 5.30pm-8.30pm
Wednesday: Coopersale 4.45pm-8.15pm
Thursday: Theydon Bois 4.45pm-8.30pm
Friday: Sheering 4.45pm-9pm
Saturday: High Ongar 4.45pm-5.30pm and Ongar 5.40pm-9pm
Sunday: Epping Green 4.15pm-5.25pm; Epping 5.30pm-8.30pm.

Website Facebook Twitter 
DM Valeting

Professional mobile valeting and detailing based in Essex. 
Maintenance - Mini - Full Valets
Bespoke Packages
All vehicles covered. We come to you!

Website  Facebook  Instagram
Tel: 07583 030807
CLICK Amazon for more details.
Also available on
WHSmith and Waterstones and Apple iBooks
CLICK Amazon for more details.
Also available on
WHSmith and Waterstones and Apple iBooks
Silk'O Gourmet

Gourmet food for delivery or collection. Home-cooked French and English gourmet traditional dishes.
Deliveries made: Thursdays 4pm-10pm; Fridays noon-10pm; Saturdays 5pm-10pm; Sundays 4pm-9pm.
Free delivery in the Loughton area.
Other areas covered include Abridge, Buckhurst Hill, Chigwell, Epping and Theydon Bois (£2 per delivery drop). Ring 07563 884698; Email
Facebook  Instagram  Website
BLT Catering, 224A High Street, Epping

BLT Catering is an independent catering company covering the London and Essex area providing a variety of homemade food. Home deliveries available.
Email or ring 07712 897723.

Website  Facebook  Instagram
The Merry Fiddlers, Fiddlers Hamlet, Epping

Tel: 01992 572142

Website  Instagram  Facebook

We offer meals of excellent quality and invite you to try our delicious food. The key to our success is simple: providing quality, consistent food that taste great every single time.
We pride ourselves on serving the finest dishes in Epping, using classic French and English techniques with a modern twist. We offer an à la carte menu every evening and are sure we can wow even the finest of palates. Why not come and try our five-course tasting menu accompanied by our perfectly selected wine flights.
Forest Skin Clinic

Tel: 01992 276376

Website  Instagram  Facebook  Twitter
Skin Cancer and Mole Screening * Removal of unwanted skin tags, moles, cysts, lipomas, warts, verrucas * Opatra Dome Skin Analysis System Treatment of fine lines and wrinkles * SkinPen Microneedling * Thread vein treatment * Obagi Medical Grade Skin Care Products * Treatment of excessive sweating * Allergy testing * Medical rejuvenation with light * Scar treatment * Acne * Rosacea * Eczema * Psoriasis * Fungal Treatment
Trixia Magosara,
ceramic design student

Trixia Magosara is a ceramic design student from Central Saint Martins UAL.
She is starting to build a small business based at Thornwood Trout Fishery, Thornwood.
Her ceramics are hand-made and hand painted.
Prices range from £20 to £35.

YouTube  Instagram  Facebook
Essex Security Services Ltd
154-156 Church Hill, Loughton

Tel: 020 8502 1360

Protecting People and Property. Established in 1979. 24-hour emergency service. Approved contractors for electronic security systems - intruder and fire alarms, CCTV and access control systems.
✅ Brand new model, purpose-built six-seater London Black Taxi
✅ Perspex screen separating driver and passenger compartments
✅ Driver operated passenger doors and contactless payment options
✅ Vinyl seats designed to be easy to clean and sterilise after every journey
✅ Reduced price fares from £25 to Central London and ride sharing options from £5 pp
 For more details
North Weald Village Pre-School

North Weald Village Pre-School is based at North Weald Village Hall and is a
term-time only setting.
We offer indoor and outdoor play and learning to children aged two to five years in a happy and fun learning environment that allows children to thrive in all areas of development using a wide variety of resources and activities.
Opening times are: Monday, Tuesday and Thursday 9am-3pm; Wednesday and Friday 9am-noon. For more information, email northweald_manager or ring Charlotte on 07767 607194.
North Weald Village Pre-School is on Facebook CLICK HERE

Old Station Road, Loughton, IG10 4PL

Tel: 020 8418 3333

New City College | Epping Forest (formerly Epping Forest College)
Offering a wide range of courses for 16 to 18-year-olds and adults. Epping Forest Campus achievement rates are higher than ever with a 13.6 per cent increase over 2018, making it one of the fastest and best improvements of all colleges in the country. Website

The Roding Players Orchestra

The orchestra is always looking for new players, especially brass.

For more details ring Shirley Fuller on 07713 113384 or 
Sanuk Thai Ongar, The Street, High Ongar
Sanuk Thai Ongar offers authentic Thai cuisine. Sanuk has been in High Ongar since 2003. Sanuk Thai Ongar is the place to experience authentic Thai food prepared with the finest ingredients. Sanuk's Thai talented chefs artistically combine the ingredients to achieve the ultimate aromatic flavour in their dishes. The experienced and award-winning chef and staff are committed to giving you the best food and service. Open seven days a week. 
For more information and to book a table, ring 01277 568411 or 01277 56
8412. Website
Paul Saggers Associates
Architects and Project Managers

A long established Epping-based architectural practice offering a cost-effective service to achieve planning permission and building regulations approval for a wide range of projects.
The company prides itself on offering an attentive and professional service.
Ring Paul on 07736 922863 to discuss requirements.
The Everything Local News media service prepares and circulates news releases with pictures for schools, councils, businesses, charities and other organisations. Releases are sent to the media and email subscribers.
Everything Local News can also set-up and manage your Twitter account.
For more details ring 07710 447868.
Facebook Facebook
Twitter Twitter
For a list of Everything Local News clients and to register for updates CLICK HERE
Everything Harlow news updates are available via the Everything Harlow Facebook group and Twitter feed
Facebook Facebook
Twitter Twitter
For more details about Bedford House Community Association CLICK HERE
* Steamed-Up Double Glazing Repairs
* Glass and Glazing Repairs * Window Hinges
* Window Locks * Emergency Glazing
* Cloudy Windows * A-Rated Windows * Blown Windows
* Drafty Windows

  For more details CLICK HERE
The Roding Players Orchestra is always looking for new players, especially brass. 
For more details
For more details about Buckhurst Hill Parish Council 
For more details about Epping Town Council's weekly Monday market
For more information about High Beach Cricket Club, ring 07985 546180 or email BARCKLEY.SUMNER@NTLWORLD.COM
For more details CLICK HERE
For more details about Matching Farmers Market CLICK HERE
NEWS BY EMAIL: To receive news updates by email register HERE
WHAT'S ON: For local event information CLICK HERE
ORGANISATIONS: For clubs and organisations CLICK HERE
BUSINESSES: For the Local Business Directory CLICK HERE
ADVERTISING: For details about advertising CLICK HERE
For more details CLICK HERE
For more details CLICK HERE
For more details CLICK HERE
For more details CLICK HERE
For more details CLICK HERE
For more details CLICK HERE
For more details CLICK HERE
Copyright © Everything Epping Forest. All rights reserved.

Our mailing address is:

Want to change how you receive these emails?
You can
update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list